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Why is believing in God important ?
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Rose
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:17 pm    Post subject: Why is believing in God important ?  Reply with quote

Why is believing in God important ?

And why would it matter to an all powerful God, (who is supposed to be love), if  someone didn't?

Unconditional love shouldn't  demand you believe in anything, surely?

Julie
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Shaker
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is believing in God important ? Reply with quote

Rose wrote:
Why is believing in God important ?

To an atheist is isn't, not even remotely, except through the effect of those who do on those who don't (and those who believe in one brand of god on those who believe in a different brand).

To those who already do, it seems to be massively important, not merely that they themselves believe but that other people do as well. Christianity is a missionary, proselytising religion - it actively imposes itself on those who don't believe at all or believe differently in an effort to encourage (or even make, where possible) them to assent to Christianity. It makes claims that it and it alone is the last word as far as the absolute truth is concerned and the only acceptable, indeed, the only true and viable way to God. However much you soft-soap this and play it down with an embarrassed smile and a shrug of the shoulders, that is what the texts (purporting to relate the words of the founding figure) state, explicitly and unambiguously.

Quote:
And why would it matter to an all powerful God, (who is supposed to be love), if  someone didn't?

It wouldn't. This only applies to those people who think that their deity has what the great David Hume regarded as the most human of attributes, "a restless appetite for applause."

Quote:
Unconditional love shouldn't  demand you believe in anything, surely

The unconditional love of which you speak however comes with a lot of very small print and detailed T & Cs.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some, but not all of course, I suspect the fear of unbelief keeps them believing in the deity.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Floo wrote:
For some, but not all of course, I suspect the fear of unbelief keeps them believing in the deity.

Not so much unbelief per se but rather what (some) theists believe unbelief represents and entails - no afterlife, no objective, external and absolute morality, no ultimate meaning or purpose to existence.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is believing in God important ? Reply with quote

Hello Julie:
Rose wrote:
Why is believing in God important ?

And why would it matter to an all powerful God, (who is supposed to be love), if  someone didn't?

Unconditional love shouldn't  demand you believe in anything, surely?

Julie


It depends on what you mean by "believe in" - if it is just to believe in the existence of God, then this matters little to either God or the "believer" (even the demons believe and tremble...)

If you mean "believe in" as "put trust upon" then there is more importance for someone to trust in God, in the same way that trusting in someone you love and who loves you is important to receive any benefits. Putting faith in someone, trusting someone, believing someone can all be used synonymously.

Trusting in God particularly requires more faith precisely because He is, to use your words, "all-powerful" - being omnipotent means that God can use a seemingly infinite number of ways to bring about ultimate good and together with His omniscience means it would be a proud thing indeed to second-guess God's methods. On a smaller scale, you have to trust (believe in) a doctor to give you the best treatment even though you might not know how she is going to do it. If you didn't trust the doctor you might read up extensively on the procedure or alternative treatments - but then it might be that we could become paranoid and distrusting of someone who really just wants to help us. In the extreme, it might mean - through being willful and conceited in our own opinion - we refuse the doctor's advice/treatment and make ourselves sick. The same happens, to a much more extreme degree, in not following the advice/treatment prescribed by the Great Physician: Jesus Christ.

In both cases, refusing what is "good for us" starts by not truly "believing" in someone/something.
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Shaker
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is believing in God important ? Reply with quote

JMC wrote:
Trusting in God particularly requires more faith precisely because He is, to use your words, "all-powerful"

No.

Trusting in God particularly requires more faith precisely because it's a word without a referent.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is believing in God important ? Reply with quote

Shaker wrote:
JMC wrote:
Trusting in God particularly requires more faith precisely because He is, to use your words, "all-powerful"

Trusting in God particularly requires more faith precisely because it's a word without a referent.


Believing in the existence of God is not a choice, therefore your reason for why it requires more faith is null-and-void. The reason I gave was why it requires more faith to believe in the Christian God Who is omnipotent and is presumed to exist, as per Julie's question. The reason is because, precisely due to His omnipotence, it is beyond our ability to "check" that His ways and methods could have been done in a better way.

It is sometimes easier to engage/answer points that haven't been made, but not always useful.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is believing in God important ? Reply with quote

JMC wrote:
Believing in the existence of God is not a choice

I wasn't aware that I'd said it was.

Let me check.

No, I didn't.

Quote:
therefore your reason for why it requires more faith is null-and-void. The reason I gave was why it requires more faith to believe in the Christian God, Who is omnipotent, as per Julie's question. The reason is because, precisely due to His omnipotence, it is beyond our ability to "check" that His ways and methods could have been done in a better way.

This empty, meaning-free verbiage has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the word 'God' being a meaningless noise without a referent, which is what I said.

Quote:
It is sometimes easier to engage/answer points that haven't been made, but not always useful.

There you go with the irony again.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is believing in God important ? Reply with quote

Shaker wrote:

There you go with the irony again.


No reference to irony-meters this time at least. Is that because you couldn't answer my question last time as to why you felt it was "needed", what this need was, and how your repeated use of the old trope served this need? If you can, then how about telling us how it adds to discussion now?
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Last edited by JMC on Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:31 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is believing in God important ? Reply with quote

JMC wrote:
No reference to irony-meters this time at least.


Allow me:




Quote:
Is that because you couldn't answer my question as to why you felt it was "needed", what this need was, and how your repeated use of the old trope served this need?

I thought the question had been answered. If it wasn't, let me do so now: pointing out irony in those who seem to lack any sense of it (i.e. somebody who makes a point about belief in God not being a choice when no such area of discussion had ever been floated) is an inherently pleasurable activity - I enjoy it and others reading the thread who also possess some sense of irony may be given pleasure thereby. It mocks and holds up to ridicule those who thoroughly deserve and merit mockery and ridicule, and that's always a pleasure and never a chore.


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